BPR Mailing List Digest: 03/21/01

Philologos
BPR Mailing List Digest
March 21, 2001

Digest Home | 2001 | March, 2001

To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bprlist] How the egg came to symbolize Easter
From: Syksteven
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:03:40 EST

In a message dated 3/21/01 9:11:50 AM, owner-bpr@philologos.org writes:

<< This verse seems to imply that God doesn't like to be worshipped in
certain
ways. This brings me to the question: Does it matter HOW we worship God
or is simply worshipping Him enough?

Excellent point, I couldn't agree more.

Just wanted to say thank you to all that have responded to my enquiry. I have
tried to send a thank you note to each of you privately also. Sorry if I
missed anyone.

I learned long ago that rarely can anyone be "argued" into accepting a
position, especially in religious matters. I just wanted to understand how
others saw this issue. I was surprised to see the majority seem to see it as
I do, I was expecting just the opposite.
That is indeed encouraging to me.

GOD bless you all, and many thanks,

Steven Sykes

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======= To: bprlist bprlist <bprlist@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [bprlist] Muslim destroyers reach for the heart of Jewish holy sites
From: Shophar_Sho_Good
Date: 19 Mar 2001 12:19:40 EST

Muslim destroyers reach for the heart of Jewish holy sites

By Lachlan Shaw in Jerusalem

http://www.smh.com.au/news/0103/19/world/world10.html

The destruction by the Taliban of the two ancient Buddhist statues in
Afghanistan reaches across into the Middle East and touches the heart of the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

As the Taliban were blowing up the relics of Buddhism, leading Israeli
figures were trying to stop Muslims from destroying archaeological treasures
dating back 3,000 years in Jerusalem.

It was a fatwa - a religious ruling binding on Muslims - issued by the
Taliban which called on the faithful to tear down Buddhist statues. It was
through a fatwa that the Mufti of Jerusalem just a few weeks ago laid claim to
the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, including the Western Wall, sacred to Jews.

The Taliban and the Palestinian Muslims share the belief that all that went
before the rise of Islam 1,400 years ago is valueless and an affront to Islam.
The decision to destroy the giant Buddha statues in Afghanistan was taken not
by one remote leader, but by 400 clerics after months of solemn debate. Some
opposed the move, but, once the consensus was reached, all swung their support
behind it.

The Jerusalem Mufti said all the stones of the Western Wall belonged to the
Muslims and had no link to Jewish history.

The fatwa in Jerusalem was issued as Israeli archaeologists, historians,
writers and others increased a campaign to stop the Mufti's organisation,
known as the Wakf, from destroying the site. So vast are the depths of the
grounds beneath the Temple Mount that archaeologists are thought to have
barely scratched the surface.

The Jews call it the Temple Mount because they believe it is where King
Solomon built the First Temple, which was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, and
where the Second Temple was built and then destroyed by the Romans in AD70.

Muslims call it the Haram al-Sharif (Noble Sanctuary), and believe it is the
place where their Prophet and founder, Mohammed, rose up to heaven to meet
God.

In his fatwa, the mufti, Sheikh Ekrima Sa'id Sabri, said the entire area of
the Temple Mount belonged to the Wakf. That included the Western Wall, which
he said was the supporting wall of the Al-Aqsa mosque, sacred to Muslims.

The Wakf also owned treasures of the site to a depth of seven stories below
and a height of seven stories above, he said. This was his answer to Jews who
say the Muslims are causing enormous damage to the antiquities of the Temple
Mount.

A group of Israelis, including a former mayor of Jerusalem, Mr Teddy Kollek, a
former mayor of Tel Aviv, Mr Shlomo Lahat, the author Amos Oz, generals,
academics and archaeologists, have a petition before the High Court of
Justice.

The group says that 15,000 cubic metres of debris and earth saturated with
archaeological artefacts from every era has been carried away in trucks over
the past few years.

The petition says: "Rare archaeological artefacts are being cursorily
destroyed by the giant scale activities of the Muslim Wakf and the Islamic
movement of Israel, the aim of which is to turn the entire site into an
exclusively Muslim holy place.''

The Wakf is believed to have built a large mosque under the ground and to be
working on new entrances and places of worship.

The petitioners want the court to tell the Government to stop the Wakf from
any work unless it is approved by government officials.

Nothing epitomises more clearly the dilemmas faced by the Palestinian
leader, Mr Yasser Arafat, and Israel's Prime Minister, Mr Ariel Sharon, than
the debate over this territory.

The issue of the Western Wall, an expanse of giant stones built by King
Herod before the birth of Christ, destroyed the Camp David peace talks last
July. Mr Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount was widely blamed for the
present conflict.

At Camp David Mr Arafat would not, or could not, agree to the Jews having
sovereignty over the Temple Mount and keeping the Western Wall under their
control.

The mufti, appointed by Mr Arafat, has given a fatwa that commands Muslims
in such a way that no compromise over the Wall is possible.

Any move by the Israelis to assert authority over the mufti, the Wakf, the
wall and the Temple Mount would provoke yet more violence.

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======= To: bprlist bprlist <bprlist@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [bprlist] NATIVITY SIGNALS DEEP ROOTS FOR CHRISTIANITY IN CHINA
From: Shophar_Sho_Good
Date: 19 Mar 2001 12:22:24 EST

NATIVITY SIGNALS DEEP ROOTS FOR CHRISTIANITY IN CHINA
AS EARLY AS THE 8TH CENTURY, TAOISTS AND CHRISTIANS STUDIED SIDE BY SIDE IN
A PAGODA AT XIAN, A BRITISH SCHOLAR SAYS.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/printedition/article/0,2669,SAV-010318021
5,FF.html

By Michael A. Lev
Tribune Foreign Correspondent
March 18, 2001
XIAN, China -- Ignored for centuries, a crumbling 1,200-year-old pagoda on
the windswept hillside of a Tao monastery near this ancient capital city has
yielded remarkable evidence of a thriving Christian community during the Tang
dynasty, suggesting that East and West came together in China earlier and much
more intimately than has been recognized.

Found on a shadowy wall of the leaning tower, the proof is the remnant of a
nativity scene, made from wood and plaster circa A.D. 780, that combines
Chinese landscape imagery with the reclining figure of the Madonna,
according to the British scholar who found it.

The discovery of what would be by far the oldest Christian site in China
opens a window on religious and art history, confirming what had only been
known by analyzing ancient texts: That Christian missionaries first came
along the Silk Road to China more than a millennium ago.

The nativity scene also raises a provocative question about Christianity's
roots in China and the troubled relationship between the church and the
Communist Party today.

China's government equates Christianity with colonialism and is deeply
mistrustful of its ambitions. But the scholar says that if an 8th Century
Tang dynasty emperor permitted a Christian community to operate within the
confines of an important Taoist monastery located near its capital, then
Christianity achieved official recognition and legitimacy in China centuries
before Western European missionaries arrived en masse.

"What it means in religious and political terms is this: Christianity can no
longer be labeled as an imperialist, foreign import never ever taken
seriously in China," said Martin Palmer, the British scholar who found the
site.

"The old claims of Christianity as an alien religion will have to be
modified," he said. "Although it will have only mild impact at first, it
means that contemporary Christianity has a pedigree, whereas before it was
nothing more than a running dog of imperialism."

Palmer discovered the site nearly two years ago, but he is only beginning to
publicize what he found on the second floor of a pagoda that had been
neglected since an earthquake in 1556 blocked access to the interior.

Few Asian and religious history scholars know of Palmer's discovery or feel
ready to comment on it. Those who have heard the news are excited and say a
major historical site has been found that adds texture to the past and a layer
of intrigue to the present.

While the discovery does not change the known chronology of when Christians
first entered China, it calls for a reinterpretation of the relationship
because of the close ties apparently forged between Christian Nestorian
missionaries from the Middle East and the Tang dynasty, said Gail Larminaux of
the Silk Road project at UNESCO in Paris.

"Sending missionaries through China is one thing," said Larminaux. "To
establish a monastery or some kind of Nestorian establishment so near a
royal city gives it a completely different dimension."

China's 5,000-year-old culture is exceedingly rich, and the area around
Xian, the ancient capital, is the cradle of Chinese civilization. It was
here that China's first emperor, who died in 210 B.C., protected his grand
tomb with the magnificent terra cotta army.

When Christian missionaries first arrived in 625, Xian--known then as
Chang'an--was the Tang dynasty capital, possibly the largest city in the
world and a cosmopolitan meeting point for international traders and
wanderers at the Eastern terminus of the Silk Road.

Christian scholars knew that Nestorian missionaries, representing an Eastern
branch of the church that later faded, were part of the mix in Chang'an
because of a descriptive diary-like stone tablet that was found in 1623 and
recorded the history of 7th Century Christian travelers.

But Palmer and other scholars said their knowledge of the Nestorians was
limited because there was no surviving physical evidence of their
activities.

Palmer, an author and expert on ancient Chinese texts, hoped to find one of
the churches and was amazed not only to discover a site, but also to
identify the remains of a remarkable nativity scene mixing Christian and
Chinese imagery in a pagoda on the grounds of a famous Tao monastery.

As he interprets it, a Christian community of scholars studied next to and
interacted with the leading scholars of Taoism with the emperor's
permission.

"They obviously were placed there to have that dialogue," Palmer said. "The
extent to which Christians were deliberately put into the very intellectual
and spiritual heart of Tang dynasty religion is astonishing."

Annette Juliano, an art historian at Rutgers University who studies the Silk
Road, said the nativity scene is an important find that reflects
Christianity's acceptance within the rich melting pot of cultures in the
Tang era, though it might be a leap in logic to argue that the Nestorians
gave Christianity legitimate roots in Chinese culture.

"It may have had more impact than we realize, but what happened to it after
Tang?" she said.

In fact, the early Christian influence in China apparently ended in 845,
soon after the pagoda was built, when the Tang dynasty turned against
religion, destroying Buddhist temples, defrocking monks and perhaps
attacking the Christian community. The nativity scene at some point was
vandalized. The Nestorians and their church of the east also faded away.

Palmer, head of the Manchester, England-based Alliance of Religions and
Conservation, picked up the trail of the Nestorians by studying Christian
texts of the era.

The next important clue in his search came from an obscure book written in
the 1930s by a Chinese professor and containing a curious hand-drawn map
that referred to a pagoda as Da Qin, which means "from the west," or can
refer to the Roman Empire.

The pagoda's location was depicted inaccurately, probably because the map
was created by Japanese spies charting the area in code, Palmer believes.
But he recognized another name on the map: Lou Guan Tai, an ancient Taoist
monastery where legend says famous monk Lao Tzu wrote his classic work "The
Book of the Way of Virtue."

History runs so deep in the Chinese countryside that when Palmer arrived at
Lou Guan Tai, local legend confirmed he was searching the right area. An old
amulet-seller told him the pagoda centuries ago had been used by the Buddhists
and before them the Taoists. Earlier still, the seller said,
meaning in the 7th Century, the pagoda was used by "men from the West who
believed in one God."

Climbing the hillside for a panoramic view, Palmer recognized an important
fact: The landscape around the pagoda was not cut in a north-south
direction, as the Chinese built their temples. The terraces here ran
east-west, toward the rising sun, in the Christian tradition.

It took another year to arrange to enter the shuttered pagoda, where Palmer
finally found himself standing before his grail, an ancient Christian shrine
in China.

While badly eroded, the towering wall sculpture is clearly not a Chinese
creation but a fascinating meld of Eastern and Western spirituality.

Posed beneath a depiction of the Five Sacred Mountains of Taoism is a figure
set in a cave that Palmer identifies as the Madonna. Though only the torso and
legs remain, the body reclines in a relaxed pose wearing flowing Greek-style
clothes. It is a style unknown in Chinese religious art, but identical to
depictions of Mary in Christian Orthodox iconography.

The cave setting is another major clue. Unlike in the Western tradition, the
Orthodox church sets the story of Christ's birth in a cave rather than a
stable. When Palmer studied the sculpture he detected the outline of a child
figure and a vacant spot where the star of Bethlehem may once have been
positioned.

Palmer and a small group of researchers and conservationists say they hope
to find more details of the history of early Christians when they open a
crypt underneath the pagoda, with the cooperation of the Chinese government.
His group is raising money for the effort through the China Heritage Arts
Foundation in Hong Kong, and there are plans being discussed for the creation
of a museum and research center.

"It really is a unique opportunity," Palmer said. "We already know that what
we have here is an example of the fusion between Western art and Eastern art.
One of the only other places in the world where that exists is Afghanistan,
and that has been blown up," he said, referring to the recent destruction of
artifacts by the militant Islamic regime.

"What we are looking at is probably one of the last remaining sites where
Western and Eastern art met, fused and created something exclusive," he
said.

____________________________________________________________________
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======= To: messynews@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] The Hand of God
From: Stafford's Mail <simmonds@freeuk.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:36:49 GMT

Today's Jerry Golden "REPORT". Blessings Stafford

P.O. Box 591
Bet Shemesh 99100 Israel
http://thegoldenreport.com
jerry@urbis.net.il

Once again the Hand of God was on us, on our return home from a
Jerusalem meeting we were missed by seconds at most a minute or two by
a terrorist bullet. Some where behind us on the south end of Jerusalem
a Terrorist killed another Israeli. When we arrived home we heard the
news on the TV that he was killed on the same highway we just drove
over. On that highway it is necessary to drive within shooting
distance of many Arab homes in Bet Jalla. The Tanzim take over these
homes and attack Israelis driving on the same highway that was built
so they could have control of their cities, called appropriately a
bypass. These same bypasses around Israel have become death to many
Israelis over the past 6 months.

Connie and I grieve for the one killed today by the Palestinians, but
we must also thank God for his protection over us.

In the Jewish Settlement of Nahal Oz, in the northern part of the
Negev Desert south of the Gaza Strip, the Palestinians sent three
Mortar shells into this village today. What makes this so dangerous is
this is the first time they have shelled in side the green line
(Israel proper).

Israel knows Arafat is trying to cause a confrontation and escalation
in violence before the Arab Summit in Jordan next week. The question
is how much can Israel take, or how many Jewish lives can be lost
before we accommodate him? The Defense Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer
says he knows how to differentiate between those who are guilty of
such crimes and those who are not. Well that sounds good to the rest
of the world but to us here in Israel, it isn't enough to say such
clever things. We must see something concrete on the ground and
quickly, we are being killed daily and the world news media CNN & BBC
still are painting us as the bad guys.

There are three main roads that lead from Jerusalem to Tel-Aviv, the
Tunnel Road (where I've been shot at twice) the Moidim Road and the
main highway #1. Today the only safe way is #1 and you have never seen
such a traffic jam for over 3- miles. Simply because everyone is
frightened to use the other roads. In all my years in Israel I have
never seen Israelis frightened to drive on their own roads before.

Today in the Jerusalem Post we seen pictures of forth graders learning
how to hold a grenade, the same article shows 10 and 12 year old boys
marching in the streets of Nablus with assault rifles, even younger
being carried on the shoulders of their fathers holding the rifles.
Does sound like a people who want peace with their Jewish neighbors?
It told of us of 10 and 12 year old boys in white uniforms with hoods
covering their faces, and fake bombs strapped to their bodies,
teaching them to die for Ala is good, to kill the Jews is good. That
one must be willing to commit suicide if necessary. This is what they
teach in their grade schools. How do you make peace with such a people?

I just posted an article I wrote on Jihad on the web site
http://thegoldenreport.com I would like for you to read it, if you
haven't already. Go to the Special Report section and you will find it.
Shalom, Jerry Golden

><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Stafford's Mail <staffordsimmonds@ntlworld.com>

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======= To: bprlist <bprlist@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [bprlist] Fwd: 2 Articles: The Killing of Baruch Cohen // A Wake-Up Call for American Jewry
From: "Patt A."
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:11:57 -0800 (PST)

Hebron <hebron@hebron.org.il> wrote:
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:37:07 +0200
To: hebron_today@hebron.org.il
From: Hebron
Subject: 2 Articles: The Killing of Baruch Cohen // A Wake-Up Call for
American Jewry

2 Articles:
The Killing of Baruch Cohen by Harvey Tannenbaum - Efrat
A Wake-Up Call For American Jewry by Michael Freund
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Killing of Baruch Cohen
by Harvey Tannenbaum

This morning, Baruch Cohen went to minyan in Efrat at his usual Vatikin
time. The father of 6, grandfather of 11, aged 59 did his usual morning
ritual of blessing the Jews of Efrat via his lineage of Birkat Kohanim.
Baruch is the first word of our blessings and this Baruch gave blessings
daily. As he left Efrat in the early daylight hour enroute to his work in
Jerusalem, he did not realize that his last bracha and priestly blessing had
just been recited. As he passed the Neveh Daniel junction on the
Gush=Jerusalem road, a car of Arab animal murderers drove by and sprayed his
car with 12bullets. Baruch was hit, lost control and drove into the
oncoming semi-trailer, dying instantly.

Baruch Cohen Z"L was the recipient of the latest Jewish guilt trip of re
opening their(Arab) roads, cities, and villages. Only last night did the
new Minister of Defense Ben Eliezer re open the access to and from the
'unfortunate' sieged Arab cities. For 2weeks, we had some' peace' and
quiet, now we had pieces of Baruch's body and another funeral to plan in
Efrat. The terrorists escaped to Bethlehem, passing the PLO(police)sic?
checkpoint which allowed more murderers to escape into their protective
areas after the killing of a Jew.

Amnon Cohen, Baruch's son is an IDF lieutenant general in charge of the
Hebron area security. His beeper went off and was told of a drive by
shooting on the Gush road. He instructed his troops to seal off the area
and he drove to the shooting area. From a distance he saw the familiar
Hyundai vehicle where a father years ago had taught him how to drive. Upon
seeing the car and his dead father, the IDF lieutenant general, Amnon did
kriyah of his uniform instead of reporting the incident. He handed over the
investigation to the next in command and began to weep on the road, not what
his soldiers ever expected to see in their commanding officer.

The roads were closed, the city of Efrat turned into a morning of mourning.
The Cohen house 1 block away from me was packed with IDF, police, the
rabbis, and outside the pregnant daughter of Baruch Z"L was placed into a
wheelchair as she nears her 8th month of pregnancy. The latest survivor of
a drive by shooting, Ronnie Diament of Efrat who was shot at and survived
last month was just awoken after last night's seudat hodaya, dinner of
gratitude to G=d, where he was toasted in a lechayim by Baruch at the
synagogue.

Ronnie was interviewed on Israel radio for most part of the afternoon and in
a breaking and haltering voice tried to repeat the blessing and the words of
his friend Baruch last night as they sang and rejoiced together for Ronnie's
discharge from Hadassah only 24 hours ago.

Today Ronnie was a pallbearer for Baruch. As we watched the thousands line
the street of the synagogue where Baruch gave his blessings daily and then
the car procession down the same road of the Gush to Jerusalem and the
hundreds of cars enroute to Har Menuchot where Baruch would receive the
kaddish blessings of his sons instead of the birkat kohanim, the noises of
tears and silence could be heard.
The entire procession stopped on the highway where only hours before Baruch
and his blessings were extinguished by the animal murderers of the PLO.

Friends, our collective guilt and worries about the well being of the masses
of PLO residents outweighs the worries for our own fellow Jewish survival in
our land of Israel. The politicians gave their advice and the best one
perhaps, is that the IDF be allowed to use its helicopters not to bomb the
innocent but to drop food and medicines daily with CNN filming it live over
the Arab villages while continuing the siege and blockades for months on our
neighbors, the Arab 'peace'? partners.

As the antitank missiles hit last night at Nachal Oz beyond the green line
and as Baruch Cohen's fresh grave remind us that it was only yesterday that
rocks and stones shattered our lives, we now realize that this CNN labeled
'intifada' has been replaced by the warzone.

To all of the other Kohanim out there, the big blessing of Yevarchecha and
Yishmerach etc....only ends with the word of Shalom when we realize that the
death of another Kohen today in Israel will strengthen our resolve and with
G-d's intervention, the birkat kohanim of Baruch Cohen shall once again be
recited very soon.

Hashem Yikam Damam
Harvey Tannenbaum
Kohen
Efrat, A City in Mourning

=====================================================

The Jerusalem Post, March 14, 2001

A Wake-Up Call For American Jewry

By Michael Freund

For a community among the most active and generous in the world, American
Jewry has been surprisingly placid in recent months regarding the
Palestinian wave of terror against Israelis. One would have expected that
the daily shootings, stabbings and stonings would have evoked an outpouring
of support for the beleaguered targets of the violence. But thus far,
little succor has been forthcoming.

Sure, solidarity visits to Israel have been organized, rallies were
convened in major cities, and letters to the editor have been written. Such
activities are, of course, important. They impact public opinion and
demonstrate that American Jews stand by Israel in her time of need. But
very little of the sympathy from abroad has been directed specifically at
the Jews living in Judea, Samaria and Gaza, who have borne the brunt of
much of the violence.

I am not a "settler", nor do I live in the territories. But I have friends
and relatives who do, and their lives have been dramatically altered in
recent months. What were once routine trips to and from work have become
far more dangerous. Family and acquaintances hesitate to visit and the
roads after dark have taken on an air of peril. The fear of being shot or
stoned has become palpable, and the psychological impact on children and
adults alike is immense.

Residents of the Gaza community of Netzarim were forced to spend Purim eve
in bomb shelters after their Palestinian neighbors attacked them with
mortar shells. For others, warnings of impending attacks cast heavy shadows
of solemnity over the traditional holiday feast.

If a Jewish community anywhere else in the world were subjected to similar
assaults, there is no doubt that American Jewry would be in an uproar. But
for some reason, the suffering and pain of the settlers goes unheeded.
Emergency appeals have not been launched on their behalf, nor have public
gatherings been convened to show support for them.

I would like to believe that politics does not have a role to play in this.
I would like to think that when a Jew cries out for help, American Jewish
organizations do not check his home address before deciding whether or not
to assist him. Perhaps it is simply due to a lack of awareness. After all,
the settlers are about as popular in the American media as Mad Cow disease,
and they are given little chance to convey their point of view.

But let there be no mistake about the severity of the situation. Jewish
communities throughout Judea, Samaria and Gaza are in desperate need of
assistance to purchase items ranging from bulletproof vehicles and
night-vision equipment to pagers, binoculars and defibrillators. The
Israeli army does the best it can, but it can not be everywhere at all
times. Hence, the communities themselves must often play a role in
enhancing their own security.

In times of crisis, American Jewry generally has a stellar track record of
getting involved. Within three days of the January 13 earthquake in El
Salvador, American Jewish organizations had set up a fund for the victims,
organized a coalition to raise awareness, and formulated plans to send a
team to evaluate the victims' needs. Oddly enough, after six months of
violence and terror, the Jews of Judea, Samaria and Gaza are still waiting
for their brethren in America to demonstrate a similar level of concern for
them.

Whatever one's views are regarding the settlements in Judea, Samaria and
Gaza, the Jews of these areas are Jews, and the proper Jewish response is
to assist them in their time of need. American Jewish organizations should
launch a massive fundraising appeal to help Jewish residents of the
territories improve their security. Even relatively modest sums might make
a difference by enabling them to purchase much-needed equipment.

Jewish communities in America should consider organizing "twinning"
programs with Jewish settlements to strengthen the ties between American
Jewry and Israelis and provide them with a much-needed morale boost. Funds
should also be directed to assisting families whose loved ones have been
killed in terrorist attacks.

When bullets are flying in Israel, American Jews must lay aside their
political differences and focus on what is truly important: saving precious
Jewish lives. The time to do so is now.

-----------------------------------

The writer served as Deputy Director of Communications & Policy Planning in
the Prime Minister's Office from 1996 to 1999.

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======= To: David Elphick <elphick@gohip.com>
Subject: [bprlist] Princes of Daniel
From: Pam
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:34:03 -0500

Dear David:

First things first. Very happy to have the news of Matthew�s health.
Like may others we have been praying for him and for your family and
thank the Lord for answered prayer. Praise the Lord!
-----
Thank you for your word study . It was most interesting.

Daniel 9:25 "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth
of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah
the *Naw-gheed* shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the
street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." 26
"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not
for himself: and the people of the *naw-gheed* that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a
flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

With respect to the term ‘Naw-gheed� you make the following comment:

"Note that where the prince is not of God, as in Daniel 11:18, but is
still of a god, the word 'qatsiyn' is used. If Daniel 9:26's reference
to a prince or ruler was different to that used in 9:25, then I would
expect ‘qatsiyn� to be used."

Your comment is well taken but I note that in the phrase ‘the Messiah
the Nawgheed� you use the capital ‘N� whereas in the second reference to
‘naw-gheed� you use the lower case ‘n�. Since I think the second
‘naw-gheed� will be the ‘false Christ� of the end times, I can relate to
this difference but wonder if it was so indicated as a result of your
study?
-----
With respect to Daniel 12:11 you make the following comment:

"Daniel 12 then goes on to describe that, following the end of this
final incarnation of Herod Agrippa (to use a name), that there is to be
a time of tribulation followed by the resurrection of the dead and that
the end will come 1200 days [I think you meant 1,290 days] after the
setting up of the abomination that maketh desolate." Daniel 12:11 -
"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the
abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two
hundred and ninety days."

As I think you know, David, I am of the opinion that the abomination
will not set up until 1,290 days AFTER the daily sacrifice is taken
away. Further, I do not think the end will come at the end of the 1,290
days but sometime during the succeeding 45 days. As Daniel 12:12 tells
us: "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three
hundred and five and thirty days." These days appear, to me, to be a
continuation of the 1,290 days and I think they are echoed in Rev.
16:15: "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and
keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." The
seventh vial is then poured out (Rev. 16:16) and I think those who are
to enter the millennium in their natural state will be ‘clothed� with
the belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Those who reject Him
will not be ‘clothed�, they will be naked, and the shame of their
rejection of Jesus as the Son of God will be evident to all. Praise the
Lord!
-----
Finally, I have not really tried to identify the ‘abomination� of
Daniel 12:11. I do not think those who are living at the time it is set
up will have any difficulty identifying it. God willing, none of us
will be in that number. Praise the Lord!

God Bless you and yours. Charlie Baker.

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] [Fwd: response to Charlie and new information on the seventh king]
From: "David
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:01:37 -0800

>To: bakerpj
>From: elphick
>Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:00:43
>Subject: response to Charlie and new information on the seventh king
>
>Hello Charlie,
>Thanks for the comments re Matthew.
>
>The reason naw-gheed was capitalised was due to the search and replace programme. It retained the capital P and made it a capital N.
>
>Of course 1290 days was meant.
>
>You are welcome to have your opinions on what is to be. Daniel 12 is blatantly clear that after the abomination is set up there will be 1290 days. If you want to hold to your own opinion, do so.
>
>I have made a mistake though. I said that there has been no king since Herod Agrippa I. I am coming to the conclusion that the king who was attacked by the ships of Chittim has been and gone. He is described thusly:
>
>11:29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
>30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do;
>
>Now who in history was beaten back by the ships of Chittim? I think I know, and it wasn't Napoleon.
>
>When he returns he will be the eighth king and he will be the final king.
>>Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:34:03 -0500
>>From: Pam Baker
>>To: David Elphick <elphick@gohip.com>
>>CC: <bprlist@egroups.com>
>>Subject: Princes of Daniel
>>
>>Dear David:
>>
>> First things first. Very happy to have the news of Matthew�s health.
>>Like may others we have been praying for him and for your family and
>>thank the Lord for answered prayer. Praise the Lord!
>>-----
>> Thank you for your word study . It was most interesting.
>>
>>Daniel 9:25 "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth
>>of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah
>>the *Naw-gheed* shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the
>>street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." 26
>>"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not
>>for himself: and the people of the *naw-gheed* that shall come shall
>>destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a
>>flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
>>
>> With respect to the term ‘Naw-gheed� you make the following comment:
>>
>>"Note that where the prince is not of God, as in Daniel 11:18, but is
>>still of a god, the word 'qatsiyn' is used. If Daniel 9:26's reference
>>to a prince or ruler was different to that used in 9:25, then I would
>>expect ‘qatsiyn� to be used."
>>
>> Your comment is well taken but I note that in the phrase ‘the Messiah
>>the Nawgheed� you use the capital ‘N� whereas in the second reference to
>>‘naw-gheed� you use the lower case ‘n�. Since I think the second
>>‘naw-gheed� will be the ‘false Christ� of the end times, I can relate to
>>this difference but wonder if it was so indicated as a result of your
>>study?
>>-----
>> With respect to Daniel 12:11 you make the following comment:
>>
>>"Daniel 12 then goes on to describe that, following the end of this
>>final incarnation of Herod Agrippa (to use a name), that there is to be
>>a time of tribulation followed by the resurrection of the dead and that
>>the end will come 1200 days [I think you meant 1,290 days] after the
>>setting up of the abomination that maketh desolate." Daniel 12:11 -
>>"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the
>>abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two
>>hundred and ninety days."
>>
>> As I think you know, David, I am of the opinion that the abomination
>>will not set up until 1,290 days AFTER the daily sacrifice is taken
>>away. Further, I do not think the end will come at the end of the 1,290
>>days but sometime during the succeeding 45 days. As Daniel 12:12 tells
>>us: "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three
>>hundred and five and thirty days." These days appear, to me, to be a
>>continuation of the 1,290 days and I think they are echoed in Rev.
>>16:15: "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and
>>keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." The
>>seventh vial is then poured out (Rev. 16:16) and I think those who are
>>to enter the millennium in their natural state will be ‘clothed� with
>>the belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Those who reject Him
>>will not be ‘clothed�, they will be naked, and the shame of their
>>rejection of Jesus as the Son of God will be evident to all. Praise the
>>Lord!
>>-----
>> Finally, I have not really tried to identify the ‘abomination� of
>>Daniel 12:11. I do not think those who are living at the time it is set
>>up will have any difficulty identifying it. God willing, none of us
>>will be in that number. Praise the Lord!
>>
>>God Bless you and yours. Charlie Baker.

------------------------------------------------------------
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======= To: <bprlist@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [bprlist] italy poised to order out chip based id cards
From: "Vaughan275"
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:12:50 -0800

Mountains by H. Leung Stationery from StationeryCentral

              A Quick Hello From Michelle

        SCAN THIS NEWS
        3.17.2001
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Katherine A.
        Italy Poised To Roll Out Chip-Based ID Cards
        Source:
        http://www.eventshome.com/Manual/manualpage.asp?manualId=2653&type=6&parentI
        d=5428&eventId=7145#Bulletin8
        [Coming to a police state near you very soon]
        The Italian government plans to start a rollout of chip-based citizen ID
        cards in 2002, following pilots in about 100 cities and towns, according to
        reports. Public Administration Minister Franco Bassanini earlier this month
        reportedly confirmed the Italian government planned to go ahead with the
        smart card project, which would replace paper ID cards Italian citizens
        carry. The cards will not only store citizenship data, which cardholders
        will use to do business with municipalities and federal agencies, but are
        also expected to absorb Italy's nascent chip-based health card. It means
        the ID would also store insurance and some medical information, say
        potential vendors on the project. Card readers are to be installed at
        public offices and in mobile units, such as police vehicles. Later, the
        cards likely would also store digital certificates, which would allow
        citizens to digitally sign government documents on the Internet. Besides
        the chips, the ID cards being tested also carry about 1 megabyte of optical
        memory, which store digitized versions of cardholder photographs on the
        front of the cards. This memory could also store other large files,
        including digitized fingerprints. About 100,000 cards are in the field, but
        at present are little used, sources tell Card Technology. (2/15)
        (News item from http://www.ct-ctst.com/ aka Card Technology News)
        ______________________________________

                  Download your FREE personalized Stationery now from StationeryCentral.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] Mir Could Spin out of Control in Week if not Destroyed
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:39:43 -0500

Mir Could Spin out of Control in Week if not Destroyed

MOSCOW, Mar 19, 2001 -- (Agence France Presse) Russian mission
control prepared Monday to set a definitive timing for the destruction of the
Mir space station amid concern that it could spin out of control within a week
and crash to Earth.

After the latest in a series of delays, the 15-year-old orbiter is now expected
to be ditched in the Pacific Ocean early on Friday, 24 hours later than the
"time window" announced last week.

Originally planned for February 27-28, but postponed repeatedly because of
technical breakdowns, the operation to bring Mir down to Earth has been put
off course because the orbiter is descending at a slower speed than space
experts calculated.

However, if the Pacific splashdown is delayed until after March 26, Mir could
drop to a critical altitude, re-entering the Earth's atmosphere unguided and
with unpredictable consequences, ground control warned.

"If the operation is not launched (before then), Mir will fall by itself," Russian
mission control (TsUP) official Viktor Blagov told AFP.

TsUP said Saturday it was now 80 percent certain that debris from the
orbiter would splash down into the Pacific Ocean on Friday morning Moscow
time at around 0600 GMT.

The descent will be triggered when Mir reaches an altitude of 220 kilometers
(130 miles) -- it was at 230 kilometers on Sunday -- when the Progress cargo
ship's rocket engine will fire three short bursts.

The first two are to correct Mir's orbit, and the third is to send it plunging into
the ocean between New Zealand and Chile.

Several governments have expressed concern that the space station might
miss its target, noting the long series of technical problems on board Mir in
the past few months.

In December, Russia's control center lost contact with Mir for almost 24
hours, triggering widespread alarm at the possible security threat if such a
communication breakdown recurred during the re-entry operation.

Most of the station is expected to break up and burn as it hurtles through the
Earth's atmosphere.

But around 20 tons of the platform's 137-ton mass are expected to survive
the burn-up, with 1,500 pieces of debris, mostly very small but a few of them
as large as a car, falling to Earth.

Debris is expected to rain down on the South Pacific in a target area 200
kilometers (120 miles) wide, and 6,000 kilometers long, between New
Zealand and Chile.

The Russian space center has taken out insurance for 200 million dollars to
cover possible damage.

The pioneering Soviet-era space station, launched in 1986, is being brought
to Earth since Russia has found that it is unable to finance its commitment
both to Mir and to the 16-nation International Space Station. ((c) 2001
Agence France Presse)

http://www.russiatoday.com/news.php3?id=314123

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] Peres: PA knew of attacks, Israel must respond
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:42:42 -0500

March 19, 2001 13:38 (Israel time)

Peres: PA knew of attacks, Israel must respond

By Amos Harel, Nadav Shragai, and Daniel Sobelman, Ha'aretz
Correspondents

Foreign Minister Shimon Peres, acting prime minister during the Washington
visit of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, said the drive-by killing of an Israe li
motorist Monday and the overnight shelling of Israeli territory from the Ga za
Strip could not have been accomplished without the knowledge of the
Palestinian Authority, and that Israel would have to respond.

"We view these two incidents with great gravity. This is something that
cannot be carried out without the authoritative body, Palestinian officiald om,
being aware of it, and we expect it to take the necessary steps in order th at
this not recur. We are not pressing for any escalation, but of course, we
cannot remain without a response."

Peres told reporters, "We are appealing to the Palestinian leadership, to
other leaders as well, to the entire region and to Europe, to ask that all
measures be taken to prevent deterioration that is unnecessary." First and
foremost, he continued, "We want to see if the Palestinian authorities take
steps by themselves. In my view, this is the preferable thing. After that, we
shall see." Peres said he would be in contact with the leaders of the
Palestinian Authority in the course of the day.

With Sharon holding talks with administration officials in Washington over a
new peace initiative, Peres said "This journey truly represents an attempt to
build a 'takeoff runway' for peace. This runway cannot be full of bumps,
shells, and nails."

http://www2.haaretz.co.il/breaking-news/peace_process/357660.stm

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] Powell delivers stern warning to Russia, Iran
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:44:01 -0500

Monday, March 19 11:37 PM SGT

Powell delivers stern warning to Russia, Iran

WASHINGTON, March 19 (AFP) -

US Secretary of State Colin Powell delivered a stern warning to Russia and
Iran Monday, putting both nations on notice that the United States was
watching their actions closely and would respond should they make moves
that could destabilize the Middle East.

In an address before the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, Powell
said Washington would not turn a blind eye to repression by Tehran or arms
sales by Moscow to the Islamic Republic.

The secretary said while President George W. Bush's administration was
reviewing its policy toward Iran, it was troubled by Tehran's continued support
for terrorism, opposition to Middle East peace efforts and its treatment of
minorities, particularly Jews.

"It is apparent that certain aspects of Iranian government behavior ... are of
deep concern," Powell said, adding that Iranian Jews had been "unfairly
charged and harshly imprisoned" in a series of recent criminal cases.

"This is of deep concern to the United States and to the American people,
and we will not turn aside and ignore this kind of behavior," he said to
enthusiastic applause from the pro-Israel crowd attending the speech.

At the same time, Powell said the Bush team was intrigued by recent events
in Iran that indicated a resurgence of moderate sentiment against the
conservative Islamic government.

"We are aware of the intellectual and political foment taking place within
Iran," he said. "Things are happening, things are changing and we will
continue to watch these developments closely and hopefully."

Powell also picked up on heavy criticism of Russia levelled by US officials
last week after Moscow announced plans to boost military and nuclear
cooperation with Iran.

"We are also concerned about Iranian efforts to develop weapons of mass
destruction and to increase its conventional military strength," he said,
noting that he had raised the issue in meetings with Russian officials,
including Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov and national security advisor Sergei
Ivanov.

"I have gone so far as to raise with senior Russian officials the role that
Russia is playing in these dangerous and destabilizing efforts," Powell said.
"We will not overlook what Russia is doing to cause this sort of problem."

Washington has warned Moscow that it may face US sanctions should it sell
advanced conventional weapons or sensitive technology to Tehran.

Russia has dismissed the US concerns saying any weapons sales to Iran
will be defensive in nature, will not violate non-proliferation agreements and
will not affect the balance of power in the Middle East.

http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/world/article.html?s=asia/headline
s/010319/world/afp/Powell_delivers_stern_warning_to_Russia__Iran.html

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] German armed forces ban MS software, citing NSA snooping
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:48:16 -0500

German armed forces ban MS software, citing NSA snooping
By: John Lettice
Posted: 17/03/2001 at 18:59 GMT

The German foreign office and Bundeswehr are pulling the plugs on Microsoft
software, citing security concerns, according to the German news magazine
Der Spiegel. Spiegel claims that German security authorities suspect that
the US National Security Agency (NSA) has 'back door' access to Microsoft
source code, and can therefore easily read the Federal Republic's deepest
secrets.

The Bundeswehr will no longer use American software (we surmise this
includes Larry and Scott as well) on computers used in sensitive areas. The
German foreign office has meanwhile put plans for videoconferencing with its
overseas embassies on hold, for similar reasons. Under secretary of state
Gunter Pleuger is said by Spiegel to have discovered that "for technical
reasons" the satellite service that was to be used was routed via Denver,
Colorado.

According to a colleague of Pleuger's this meant that the German foreign
services "might as well hold our conferences directly in Langley." We're not
entirely sure whose interesting video conferencing via satellite service has a
vital groundstation in Denver, but we note that Pleuger seems to have
gleaned this information from a presentation held earlier this month in Berlin
by, er, Deutsche Telekom.

Which just happens, along with Siemens, to have picked up the gig. The two
companies have supplanted Microsoft (and anything else American) and will
be producing a secure, home-grown system that the German military can be
confident in.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/17679.html

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======= To: bprlist <bprlist@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [bprlist] Fwd: Ezekiel 38
From: "Patt A."
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:19:23 -0800 (PST)

Koenig's International News <bill@watch.org> wrote:
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:01:36 -0600
From: "Koenig's International News"
To: watch-news@watch.org
Subject: Ezekiel 38

Ezekiel 38 - Bill Koenig

March 18, 2001

How might current events play out in the Middle East during the
coming months? Following, for your consideration, are some
different scenarios to compliment my "Middle East: Bottom Line"
Commentary from earlier this past week.

The signing of a peace treaty between the Israelis and the
Palestinians seems very unlikely because, in reality, any
resolution comes down to the status of Jerusalem and the Temple
Mount sovereignty, the issues over which the talks broke off late
last year.

The same prediction goes for the talks between Israel and Syria,
which also broke off over possession of a few meters of Golan
Heights land along the eastern shoreline of the Sea of Galilee.

So what will produce a peace treaty? Will it be a miracle "peace
deal," introduced by a world leader according to Daniel 9:27? Or
will it be a major military victory by Israel, so devastating the
Arabs say, "OK, we will agree?"

Would that major victory be the Biblical Gog and Magog war?

Or could the peace deal be initiated by the destruction of
Damascus, as foretold in Isaiah 17:1? (Note: This event could also
happen as part of the Gog and Magog war or perhaps even another
military skirmish.)

The key scripture that could give us a clue to the timing lies in
Ezekiel 38:14, which talks of a time of safety in Israel before the
Gog and Magog war.

Ezekiel 38:14 (NIV)=97"Therefore, son of man prophesy and say to Gog:
This is what the Sovereign Lord says in that day, when my people
Israel are living in safety, will you not take notice of it?"

Former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke of a time of
peace when he was in office, yet many prophecy people don't believe
this is the peace spoken of in Ezekiel. That type of peace seems to
be the peace that would come with a formal agreement between the
Israelis and the Arabs either after a major and decisive victory or
after a world leader comes with a plan to which both sides would
agree.

So in all likelihood, the Gog and Magog war will occur in Israel
after the Daniel 9:27 treaty is manifested. Russia is currently and
actively reestablishing military agreements with Arab nations so
the extra time will meet their prophetic role more effectively in
the Middle East. Just last week a joint Russian and Iranian
military and business agreement was revealed.

With that in mind, I think the Isaiah 17:1 destruction of Damascus
could be the most likely event leading to a peace treaty. It would
be so devastating the Arabs would say, "enough is enough," and
"lets give peace a try," only to side with Russia later on in the
Gog and Magog war. At that time, the world leader would comes to
the peace table with the Daniel 9:27 solution.

Perhaps we could get a more diplomatic replacement for Yasser
Arafat, one who could work out a deal with the Israelis. However,
the key stumbling issues remain the status of Jerusalem and the
Temple Mount sovereignty issue.

Moreover, we continue to hear that no Arab leader will be able to
physically survive the rage of his own people if any deal is signed
without possession of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount being part of
it.

KEY SCRIPTURES

Ezekiel 38:8 (NIV)=97"After many days you will be called to arms. In
future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war,
whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of
Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out
from the nations, and now all of them live in safety."

1 Thessalonians 5:3 (NIV)=97"While people are saying, "Peace and
safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on
a pregnant woman, and they will not escape."

THE TIMING OF GOG AND MAGOG

Biblical scholars are divided into three predominant scenarios
about the timing of Gog and Magog war. In addition, the second
group has four schools of thought about the timing of when this
event would occur during the seven-year tribulation period.

Scenario 1: This group believes the war happens before the Daniel
9:27 treaty is confirmed and that it would be the catalyst for the
treaty's approval. However, in this scenario, there is not really
the time of peace (safety) in Israel before the Gog and Magog war
spoken about in Ezekiel 38:14. Some in this group believe that
there has already been peace in Israel and that the Gog and Magog
war could break out at any time.

Scenario 2: This group believes there has not been a time of peace
(safety) as spoken of in Ezekiel 38:14. This time of peace and
safety likely would come only after the confirmation of the Daniel
9:27 agreement.

Some of this group believe Gog and Magog will happen in the first
year or two of the final seven-year Tribulation period. Others
believe it will take place toward the end of the first three and
one-half years. Still others believe it will happen in the middle
of the final three and one-half years, while a final group believe
it will occur toward the latter half of the seven-year period, just
before Armageddon.

Scenario 3: This very small third group believes that the Gog and
Magog war is that mentioned in Revelation 20:8, taking place after
Christ's thousand-year reign in the New Jerusalem.

However, in this scenario, it looks as if Gog and Magog symbolize
the forces of evil, and we must remember that Gog is a human
leader.

Additionally, the war in Revelation 20 is followed immediately by
the destruction of the earth and the creation of a new heaven and
new earth, while in Ezekiel, life goes on for months as people bury
the dead. Additionally, the Revelation 20 war has to do with
Jerusalem, while Gog and Magog have to do with Israel.

----

COMMENTARY ON EZEKIEL 38:7-23

Following is a verse-by-verse presentation of Ezekiel 38:7-23 from
the King James Version, with my comments following the bullets.

"7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy
company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto
them. 8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years
thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword,
and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of
Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out
of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them."

=B7 Israel was brought back from desolation. The residents came from
many places, and the land was waste. But Israel came forth out of
many nations, and they shall all dwell safely.

=B7 At first, the residents were not prepared militarily to defend
themselves, but they certainly are now.

"9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a
cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people
with thee."

=B7 The attackers of Israel did come in great numbers. At times,
they looked just like "a cloud that covered the land."

"10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at
the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think
an evil thought: 11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of
unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell
safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars
nor gates,"

=B7 What people are living in unwalled villages, not suspecting war
and living in peace? The people of Israel certainly don't live in
peace currently. There is a heightened state of alert with the
communities fortified in case of war, and the reserves have been
called up. There is daily talk of war and terror from the Arab
terror groups.

=B7 Some say that Israel has already lived in peace, including
former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu who made the claim while
in office during the Oslo Accords. However, the war of Gog and
Magog is prophesied to surprise the inhabitants of Israel.

"12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon
the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people
that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and
goods, that dwell in the midst of the land."

=B7 The people of Israel have gathered themselves together from the
nations and have made their land rich with livestock and goods.

"13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the
young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a
spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away
silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great
spoil?"

=B7 One group of invaders would come from this area.

"14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith
the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely,
shalt thou not know it?"

=B7 Today is not a time of safety in Israel, with many living in
armed camps and settlements and Palestinian areas isolated and
blocked off from entry or exit.

"15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts,
thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a
great company, and a mighty army: 16 And thou shalt come up against
my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in
the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the
heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog,
before their eyes."

=B7 God will allow these nations, including Russia, to come against
Israel in great numbers, so that He may show them His holiness and
power.

"17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in
old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in
those days many years that I would bring thee against them?"

=B7 God will bring judgment against the enemies of Israel.

"18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come
against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall
come up in my face. 19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my
wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great
shaking in the land of Israel; 20 So that the fishes of the sea,
and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all
creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are
upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the
mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall,
and every wall shall fall to the ground."

=B7 A great earthquake is predicted in Israel, so powerful that the
whole earth will experience it and will shake at the Lord's power
and presence.

"21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my
mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against
his brother."

=B7 At that time, the invaders will fight among themselves, not
knowing on whose side they are. The earthquake contributes to this
confusion.

"22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood;
and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many
people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great
hailstones, fire, and brimstone."

=B7 The invaders will experience major rains, life-threatening
hailstones, fire and brimstone as in the time of Sodom and
Gomorrah. This will be God's judgment against them.

"23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be
known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am
the LORD."

=B7 There will be no doubt that the Lord has spoken through these
catastrophic events. The hardened hearts of many unbelievers will
then know that this time is unique because of the magnitude of this
chain of events.

IN CONCLUSION

I will provide commentary on Ezekiel 39 later this week, going into
the details of the judgment from the Gog and Magog war and of the
subsequent restoration in Israel.

Please note that I will also keep you informed about Prime Minister
Ariel Sharon's visit to Washington Monday and Tuesday.

Have a blessed week in Him!

--
Koenig's International News - http://watch.org

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] (Fwd) Address by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:51:02 -0500

------- Forwarded message follows -------
Date sent: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 05:37:53 -0500
From: imra@netvision.net.il
To: imra@imra.org.il
Subject: Address by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon
to AIPAC Policy Conference
Washington D.C., March 19, 2001

Address by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to AIPAC Policy Conference -
19-Mar-2001Address by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to AIPAC Policy Conference
Washington D.C., March 19, 2001

[Source: Israel Government Press Office]

"Towards a National Agenda of Peace and Security"

Distinguished Members of Congress, the leadership of AIPAC, Tim Willigur,
Lonny Kaplan, Howard Kohr, dear friends and supporters of Israel.

I bring you greetings from Jerusalem, the eternal capital of the Jewish
people for the past 3000 years, and of the State of Israel for the past 52
years and forever. Jerusalem belongs to all the Jewish people - we in Israel
are only custodians of the city. Only under the sovereignty of Israel has
Jerusalem been open to all faiths. Jerusalem and the Temple Mount, the
holiest site to the Jewish people, is something you should stand up and
speak out about. Jerusalem will remain united under the sovereignty of
Israel - forever.

I stand before you today, first and foremost as a Jew. This strong Jewish
identity is a central theme in my life and will be in carrying out my
responsibilities as Prime Minister. I want to work to strengthen the
relationship between Israel and Jews all over the world. I have established
a National Unity Government to unite the people of Israel, but unity among
Jews is vital worldwide. Unity is our source of strength. The Jewish people
have one small, tiny country; it is the only place in the world where Jews
have the right and capability to defend themselves by themselves. For 2000
years we had to rely on others for our defense, now we control our own
destiny. Exercising this right strengthens the security of Jews everywhere.

Although I am 6000 miles from home, I feel that tonight, I am among friends.
I would like to recognize the long-standing bipartisan support of the U.S.
Congress for the State of Israel. I have come to Washington to deepen and
strengthen the special relationship between our peoples. I wish to start by
developing a close relationship with President Bush and his Administration,
enhance our ties with both houses of Congress, and with the American people
as a whole. Ten years ago, under the leadership of President George Bush,
Secretary of Defense Richard Cheney, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
Staff, General Colin Powell, the United States won a great military victory
in the Gulf War, that changed the face of the Middle East.

An entirely new situation emerged that opened a 'window of opportunity'
leading to the Madrid Peace Conference in the fall of 1991.

The clear lesson of this period was that if there is a secure Middle East,
there can be a peaceful Middle East. Regional security proved to be a
pre-requisite for peacemaking: face to face negotiations without the threat
of aggression, violence or terrorism. This became the underlying principle
of the Madrid Conference and subsequent Israeli-Arab negotiations.

In the years that followed Madrid, every Israeli Prime Minister sought to
advance the peace process in his own way. All of Israel seeks peace. Based
on my personal experiences in all of Israel's wars, I am committed to
achieving peace. But Israel needs peace with security, a peace that will
last for generations.

Unfortunately, the situation in the Middle East in 2001 is no longer the
same as it was in 1991, the security of the region as a whole has eroded.

A new wave of international terrorism is on the rise from Afghanistan to
Lebanon - some of it state-sponsored. Most recently, acts of terror
instigated by the Palestinian Authority, coupled with deliberate incitement,
have become one of the primary sources of instability in the Middle East.

Terrorism as a form of warfare is a strategic issue in our region: Most of
the past wars in the region were instigated by acts of terrorism. Therefore,
on the basis of past experience, even today international terrorism can
still threaten regional and global stability.

Terrorism thrives when international norms and principles are ignored; when
the peaceful resolution of disputes is displaced by violence and
intimidation. Therefore, strengthening cooperation among all western nations
including Israel, and concerted efforts led by the United States are the
only way to contain this dangerous trend.

Regional security is eroding in the wider Middle East, as well. Iraq has not
been under UN monitoring for more than two years and sanctions have been
increasingly ignored. There can be no doubt that Saddam Hussein is seeking
to restore his mass destruction weapons capability and his quest for
long-range missiles.

Iran today is providing unprecedented support for terrorism. It not only
backs Hizbullah, but also seeks to arm and train Palestinian organizations
like Hamas and Islamic Jihad that are planning attacks within Israel and
against Jewish and Israeli targets abroad. Today, Iran is continuing its
effort to export fundamentalism, converting Lebanon into one of the main
centers of international terrorism that will inevitably undermine the
stability of the entire Middle East.

Iran is already testing missiles that can strike Israel. But it is planning
to produce significantly longer-range missiles that will put the Middle
East, Western Europe, Russia and even parts of the U.S. itself at risk.

Much of this ballistic missile technology comes from North Korea, but it is
also emanating from the Russian Federation.
In the Middle East today, the forces of instability feel they are gaining
momentum. In this new environment, it is not surprising that the
Arab-Israeli peace process has reached a stalemate in recent months as the
considerations of our immediate neighbors have been altered.

Syria is looking east to its ties with a resurgent Iraq and Iran, instead of
better relations with the West. The Palestinians are waving the flags of
Iraq and Hizbullah. Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian Authority are
returning to the belief that they can defeat Israel by means of armed
struggle. They feel that violence will produce further Israeli concessions.
Arafat is willing to destabilize the entire Middle East, including moderate
Arab regimes, in order to achieve his goals.

The current situation in the Middle East can be reversed. Strong democracies
determined to protect themselves can restore stability and build the
foundations for a lasting peace.

First, I believe that Israel can reach an agreement with the Palestinians
and I will make every effort to reach such an agreement. This agreement will
be based on two basic stages.

In the first stage, which we have begun, we are already taking immediate
steps to ease up restrictions and improve the economic situation of the
Palestinian population. At the same time, we will maintain a relentless
fight against terrorists and their supporters with an effort to prevent
escalation. Steps and measures to stop the violence and restore stability
must be taken by the Palestinian Authority as well as the Israeli security
forces. Let me emphasize that I draw a clear distinction between terrorists
and their supporters, on the one hand, and the general population on the
other.

In the second stage, after a cessation of hostilities, and when stability
has been restored, we will restart the negotiations.
Despite intense diplomatic efforts of the last nine months, it is clear that
conditions are not yet ripe to conclude a permanent status agreement.
However, Israel remains committed to agreements that previous governments
have signed, that were ratified by the Knesset, and also implemented by the
other side. But Israel will not be bound by the record of past negotiations
that failed.

It is for this reason that I have called in the second stage for a new, more
realistic approach of non-belligerency and a long-term interim agreement.
More than ever, Israel needs security zones to protect it from the growing
dangers in the Middle East; the Palestinians need contiguity and a better
economic future. And time is needed to make sure that incitement and hatred
are removed from the Palestinian media and from school textbooks and that
children are taught the language of peace, so that we can achieve real
reconciliation and a true end to the conflict.

For this to occur, Arafat must understand, first and foremost, that he will
gain nothing from violence. Israel will not negotiate while Israeli
civilians and soldiers are under fire.

Regrettably, just last week, we received a definite intelligence warning
that Yasser Arafat's own Presidential Guard, known as Force-17, was planning
a car bomb attack in the heart of Jerusalem. Many Israeli lives were at
stake. The Force-17 unit was located in Palestinian-controlled Ramallah, but
Arafat was not prepared to stop this threat against Israel by himself.
Israel placed a ring of checkpoints around Ramallah in order to catch the
Force-17 unit. The PLO tried to create an international uproar about our
actions, saying that we wanted to strangle Ramallah. We do not want to
create barriers for the Palestinians, but I will do what is necessary to
protect the people of Israel.

Second, it is not enough to address the Palestinian issue alone. For two
decades many believed that if Israel would only make diplomatic progress
with the Palestinians, the rest of the Middle East would fall into place.
That has not happened over the last ten years. The wider sources of regional
instability must be neutralized. It is imperative that Iraq be placed under
strict inspection and monitoring. Iran's backing of international terrorism
must be stopped. The proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and
missile delivery systems to both Iran and Iraq must be halted.

Third, in order to assure for both the security of Israel and the United
States, we must provide an answer to the emerging threat that both Iran and
Iraq pose to our future security; namely, long-range ballistic missiles.
Missile defense is an absolute imperative for our countries today. Israel is
proud to be one of America's major international partners in missile defense
development. It is our hope that Israel's own experiences in missile defense
can help the US and its allies in protecting their future security. In sum,
restoring regional stability requires both diplomacy and deterrence.

Let me close, however, with the following observation. The future of Israel
is not just a matter for the Israelis that live there. Israel belongs to the
entire Jewish people. And Israel would not be what it is today if it were
not for the efforts of all Jews worldwide, as well as of our friends, many
of whom I see here tonight. Our destinies tie us together and remain firmly
bound.
Now I turn to your generation to stand by Israel at this critical hour. We
have three main goals on our shared agenda; aliya, a Zionist-Jewish
education, and continuing to build the foundations of the State of Israel.

Now is the time to make aliya and join us in building the country. But if
you can't, it is also the time to visit and send your children to learn and
study. A Jewish and Zionist education is the key to Jewish survival. We can
meet these challenges and make all our dreams come true.

Together we can make the Jewish people secure, make Israel safe, and assure
for generations an Israel which is a true island of democracy at peace, with
a united Jerusalem as its eternal capital.

Today I feel the heavy responsibility of being Prime Minister. I am ready to
face the challenges and hopes that lie ahead. I am hopeful that if we work
together, we can live to see Israel reach its potential and take its place
as a true light unto the nations. I would like to end with a quotation I
used in my opening speech to the Knesset two weeks ago. It is taken from
President Abraham Lincoln's presidential address on March 4, 1865 and
reflects my own feelings and aspirations upon assuming office:
"With malice towards none, with charity for all; for firmness in the right,
as God gives to us to see the right, let us strive to finish the work we are
in; to bind up the nation's wounds;. to do all which may achieve and cherish
a just, and a lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations."

Thank you.

--------------------------------------------
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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] PM to Bush today: 'Here's my plan for an interim accord'
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:59:19 -0500

Tuesday, March 20, 2001

PM to Bush today: 'Here's my plan for an interim accord'

Sharon will insist Arafat controls the violence

By Aluf Benn
Ha'aretz correspondent

WASHINGTON - The State Department's top Middle East experts are urging
that Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat be invited to Washington
because it is better to maintain a dialogue rather than leave him "out of the
loop."

Meanwhile, Ariel Sharon, on his first visit to Washington as prime minister,
has been emphasizing in talks with U.S. officials that Arafat is in control of
the violence in the territories, and without an end to the violence he won't
negotiate with him.

Sharon will see President George Bush today in a meeting that includes
lunch.

U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, in a speech to the American Israel
Political Action Committee (AIPAC) departed from his prepared text to say
the Americans want to hear from "all leaders" in the region, another
indication that Washington will not be freezing out Arafat. Already in line for
visits to Washington are Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and Jordan's
King Abdullah II.Sources in the prime minister's entourage said yesterday
they are still waiting for a positive sign from Arafat that would make a
meeting between him and Sharon possible. A source said "it's important that
such a meeting should have results" and added that a condemnation of
terrorism from Arafat would help.

In meetings with U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and CIA chief
George Tenet, Sharon said that Israel is very interested in regional stability
"but not at the price of Israeli security." He explained to them his plan for
"first, an end to the violence," and then a series of negotiations aimed at
creating a long-term interim agreement between Israel and the Palestinians.

Greeted at the Pentagon by a 19-gun salute, signifying that it was a working
visit, the prime minister met first with Rumsfeld and then with Tenet.

For years virtually persona non grata in Washington, due to his role in both
Israel's settlement policy in the territories, and the Lebanon war, Sharon's
welcome in Washington was described by members of his entourage as
warm "with the Americans going out of their way for the prime minister."

He emphasized in his talks with Rumsfeld that terrorism is the central
destabilizing factor in the Middle East, but he sought to dissuade the
Americans from making any linkage between the Gulf confrontation with Iraq
and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

He pointed to the drive-by shooting attack south of Jerusalem yesterday as
an example of the terrorism sponsored by the Palestinian Authority, but he
stopped short of asking the U.S. to put the PA on the list of states that
sponsor terrorism. "That's for the Americans to decide."

After his meeting with Rumsfeld, sources in Sharon's entourage said the two
countries share the same view of the PA's role in the violence of the last six
months.

Rumsfeld, who brought his deputy Paul Wolfowitz to the meeting, heard
Sharon explain that Israel and the U.S. share the same common threats in
the region - from Iraq and Iran, two anti-American states seeking missile
capabilities. "We can do a lot together. We share common interests and
common dangers," Sharon told them.

Over lunch today Bush will hear the prime minister recap much of what he
told Rumsfeld, Tenet, and a convention of the AIPAC lobby, last night. In a
speech to the AIPAC gathering, Sharon went out of his way to emphasize
his "commitment to protecting a united Jerusalem, with the Temple Mount in
its center, under Israeli sovereignty forever."

In his inaugural speech in the Knesset, Sharon left out that promise,
prompting speculation he might be considering a deal with the Palestinians
in Jerusalem.

He told the AIPAC convention "restoring security and regional stability are
the precondition" for the success of the diplomatic process. And he called for
U.S.-Israeli cooperation to contribute to the restoration of regional stability.
He described his peace plan as a two-stage process.

First, restoring security and quiet, with decisive action against terror, in a
combined effort by Israel and the PA, while at the same time taking
immediate steps to ease conditions for the Palestinian population.

Secondly, once the violence, ceases, Sharon proposes negotiations based
on a multi-stage program to reach a long term interim agreement for non-
belligerency.

Other issues on Sharon's agenda for the meeting with the president include
the missing MIAs in Lebanon and clemency for Jonathan Pollard. He is not
expected, at this early stage in the relationship between the new
administration and his new government, to ask for any specific aid from the
U.S., other than overall security cooperation.

Bush is expected to call on Sharon to moderate Israel's pressure on the
Palestinians, and on the Palestinian Authority, lest it force the collapse of
the Palestinian government. The administration is in touch with Arab allies
throughout the region, seeking ways to prevent an extreme anti-Israel
decision next week at the Arab summit in Amman

http://www3.haaretz.co.il/eng/scripts/article.asp?mador=14&datee=3/20/01&i
d=113999

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] Court backs lesbian parent against the rabbis
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:02:31 -0500

Tuesday, March 20, 2001

Court backs lesbian parent against the rabbis

By Moshe Reinfeld
Ha'aretz Correspondent

The High Court of Justice yesterday threw out a rabbinical court ruling that
had prevented a divorced lesbian mother of three from introducing her
daughters to her live-in woman partner, who is a mother of two boys.

The rabbinical court had found in favor of the lesbian's ex-husband who
sought to prevent their daughters - in the mother's custody - from meeting
the woman's partner. The man, on learning his ex-wife was living with a
woman, asked the rabbinical court to lower his alimony and prevent his ex-
wife from introducing the children to her partner.

The rabbinical court ruled it did not have the authority to lower the alimony
payments, but did order that the three girls could not meet their mother's
partner. When she appealed to a higher rabbinical court it ruled against her
on the grounds that the reason "is self-evident and needs no explanation."

The woman, through the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, appealed to the
High Court, arguing that the rabbinical court had exceeded its authority in the
matter and ignored natural justice.

In the High Court hearings, the legal advisor to the rabbinical courts claimed
that the issue had far reaching implications and asked the court to seek the
attorney general's views on the case. Attorney General Eliyakim Rubinstein
recently wrote to the High Court "it appears that under the circumstances,
the rabbinical court made a decision beyond its purview."

The High Court therefore went ahead with its decision to over-rule the
rabbinical court and throw out its verdict.

http://www3.haaretz.co.il/eng/scripts/article.asp?mador=14&datee=3/20/01&i
d=113997

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======= To: David Elphick <elphick@gohip.com>
Subject: [bprlist] 1,290 & 1,335 Days
From: Pam
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:38:44 -0500

Dear David:
    Thank you for your 'Response to Charlie...". I think it is rather
nice that we can have different opinions on some aspects of the
scriptures but have the same opinion on the fact Jesus Christ is the Son
of God and that God raised Him from the dead. Praise the Lord!
    You may be right about the 1,290 days, David, but that
interpretation leaves me with some unanswered questions, perhaps you can
answer them. Praise the Lord!
    The first has to do with Revelation 11:1-2 :"And there was given me
a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure
the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But
the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for
it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under
foot forty and two months." It would appear this measuring is done at
the mid-point of the 7 years and the court without the temple will come
under the control of the Gentiles who will tread down the holy city for
the next 3 1/2 years. This indicates to me that the temple of God, the
altar and them that worship therein, will NOT be under the control of
the Gentiles. The question, therefore is: "Who do you think will have
control of them during that period?"
    The second has to do with Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power
unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred
and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." The scriptures make it
clear, I think, that these two witnesses will be slain by the beast from
the bottomless pit at the end of the 7 years and their bodies will lie
on the street in Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days which would indicate they will
be in Jerusalem for the period of their prophesying. The question I
have is this: "Where will these two witness be located in the city of
Jerusalem during that period?"

My thinking is that the temple of God and the altar will be under
the control of the two witnesses and they will be the 'those that
worship therein'. If this the case, it will not be possible for any man
to enter the temple of God until after they have been slain and it
follows, therefore, that it will not be possible for the abomination to
be set up in the temple during the time they are prophesying. The court
will be under the control of the Gentiles, which will permit the beast
to cause the daily sacrifice to cease, but he will not be able to enter
the temple until after they are slain. However, I could be wrong so I
appreciate your comments. Praise the Lord!

A third and fourth questions relate to your statement, in your
earlier comments, that the end will come at the end of the 1,290 days.
If this is the case, I have to ask: "What will happen during the
following 45 days, and what days will be shortened as prophesied by Our
Lord?"

God Bless you. Charlie Baker.

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [bprlist] 1,290 & 1,335 Days
From: "David
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:32:15 -0800

Hello Charlie, thanks for the challenge. I have never looked at this scripture closely.

I don't expect you will agree with my reasoning but . . .

I'll intersperse comments within your letter within ***.

>To: David
>Cc: <bprlist@yahoogroups.com>
>From: Pam
>Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:38:44 -0500
>Reply-To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [bprlist] 1,290 & 1,335 Days
>
>Dear David:
> Thank you for your 'Response to Charlie...". I think it is rather
>nice that we can have different opinions on some aspects of the
>scriptures but have the same opinion on the fact Jesus Christ is the Son
>of God and that God raised Him from the dead. Praise the Lord!
> You may be right about the 1,290 days, David, but that
>interpretation leaves me with some unanswered questions, perhaps you can
>answer them. Praise the Lord!
> The first has to do with Revelation 11:1-2 :"And there was given me
>a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure
>the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

**********************
Our first point of disagreement no doubt. The temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein is us. We are the 'living stones' of the temple of God. We worship at the alter by prayer and by our lives as witnesses to the Word.
**********************

But
>the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for
>it is given unto the Gentiles:

**********************
Here Gentiles refers to the heathen.
**********************

and the holy city shall they tread under
>foot forty and two months."

*****************
The forty and two months is the period of tribulation that follows the setting up of the abomination that desolates. The heathen will trample the temple of God, us. This is the tribulation period and it is those christians then alive who will suffer that tribulation. The living stones will be trampled upon. It will be a time similar to what Stalin and Hitler did to the Jews. 'This calls for patience'.
***********************

It would appear this measuring is done at
>the mid-point of the 7 years

****************************
You really need to read the KJV and appropriate concordance Charlie. Daniel 9 is gone. This is not the mid-point of seven years. This is the period that begins when the next incarnation, the 8th king who was of the seven as per Daniel 11, of the antichrist, the King of the South, Magog, has reached his full power. It is for 3 1/2 years. He will blaspheme and establish the 'something', and house himself in it as a mock Holy of Holies.

People will worship at that Holy of Holies, believing they worship God.

They will be worshipping Satan. The LIE. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE rethink Daniel 9. Look at my study on princes in Daniel. Daniel wrote 'the prince who is to come' because, back in 600bc Jesus was still to come. The Romans who destroyed the temple did so at the behest of God through the Roman Emporer. Didn't God move the heathen to do work for him as recorded in the OT?

Those same Romans, later, and their families and friends and countrymen (lend me your ears) became christians. Rome, way back then anyway, was the centre of the church for Christians, not Asia.

***************************

and the court without the temple will come
>under the control of the Gentiles who will tread down the holy city for
>the next 3 1/2 years.

*************************
The Christian faith will come under the full force of evil. It will be hated and supported in this hatred by the world. The world will fully support this filthy man. This will be for a period of 3 1/2 years and then he will be destroyed and judgement of the dead (i.e. the gentile, i.e. the heathen) will come. We will be raptured away or resurrected and raptured away, only to return to round up the nations and battle against the controlling spirits known as Gog and Magog.
************************

This indicates to me that the temple of God, the
>altar and them that worship therein, will NOT be under the control of
>the Gentiles.

*********************
I think I don't need to say anything here. Gentile = those against Christ. Israel = those in Christ. Jacob = Jew.
**********************

The question, therefore is: "Who do you think will have
>control of them during that period?"

***********************
The temple is the christian faith. We, and Christ, are in control of our own faith. The gentiles, or heathens, will be smashing us to a pulp but we will be strong. We know that death has no victory over us. Death brings release. What tough times these will be. Do we pray for Christ to come, knowing that this will precede that? Yes we do, because we know that this earth is not the end of life. The new earth will be like that of the earth Adam and Eve inhabited before they fell.
*************************

> The second has to do with Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power
>unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred
>and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." The scriptures make it
>clear, I think, that these two witnesses will be slain by the beast from
>the bottomless pit at the end of the 7 years and their bodies will lie
>on the street in Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days which would indicate they will
>be in Jerusalem for the period of their prophesying. The question I
>have is this: "Where will these two witness be located in the city of
>Jerusalem during that period?"

************************
John in NZ reckons the two witnesses might be two of the candlestick churches, and I think he's on the money. Two of those 'churches' (christians with the gifts of prophesying (teaching and warning)) and guided by the angel of their church, will stand tall until the rapture of the saints. When the 'two' [church] witnesses are lifted up, so will the other saints still alive and so will the bodies of those who died-in-Christ.

As to their location. It doesn't matter. Jerusalem is a spiritual righteous place, the same as Egypt is a spiritual evil place. Jerusalem on earth will be wherever christians are. Egypt will be wherever the heathens or gentiles are.

******************************
> My thinking is that the temple of God and the altar will be under
>the control of the two witnesses and they will be the 'those that
>worship therein'. If this [is] the case, it will not be possible for any man
>to enter the temple of God until after they have been slain and it
>follows, therefore, that it will not be possible for the abomination to
>be set up in the temple during the time they are prophesying.

***********************
I understand why you think what you do now.
If you can see that the temple is the christian, the child of God, the living stone, then you will see that the problem you perceive does not exist. The abomination that desolates is a building. The temple of God is us. Review your KJV (get ONLINE Bible, free Bible software from http://www.OnlineBible.org) and review the NT references to the temple of God.

It is when this natural building (your not going to like what the building actually is) is set up that the church will go into full frenzied witnessing. The wise will understand (cf Daniel 11) but many will say that they are wrong.

The natural building might well be established in Jerusalem, but that is not the temple of God.
************************

The court
>will be under the control of the Gentiles, which will permit the beast
>to cause the daily sacrifice to cease,

***********************
Daily here refers to eternal, everlasting (as the Kingdom of God is). See Strong's Concordance about that. So it is a daily and eternal sacrifice that is to be ceased. This is done by killing all Christians, or making them denounce their faith, or destroying all christian churches and forbidding Holy Communion and forbidding prayer (although that would be impossible while a christian lives).

This brings to mind the 2,300 days in Daniel. This aspect needs further thought though. There might be a lead-in period of 2.5 years until king number 8 begins the persecution.
***********************

but he will not be able to enter
>the temple until after they are slain. However, I could be wrong so I
>appreciate your comments. Praise the Lord!

>
> A third and fourth questions relate to your statement, in your
>earlier comments, that the end will come at the end of the 1,290 days.
>If this is the case, I have to ask: "What will happen during the
>following 45 days, and what days will be shortened as prophesied by Our
>Lord?"

*********************
Beats me! Perhaps the end has a beginning. The vials that reign down on the heathen (we're gone) are meant to take a day. Perhaps it will take 45 days to round everybody up and for the judgement to be completed. It'll be good theatre.
*********************

>
> God Bless you. Charlie Baker.
>

And you.
Cheers,
David

>
>************************
>
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======= To: <bprlist@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [bprlist] Re: Ezekiel 38
From: "John
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:33:16 +1200

Hi,
Interesting that Ezekiel 38 talks about events to come - but when? The
chapter itself gives us a time clue
38:18 "on that day ...will my wrath be aroused"

The study of the word "wrath" in scripture is interesting. I did a simple
Young's concorfance study years ago and found one important thing: "Wrath"
when it relates to the coming wrath at the end of the age only appears on
the day of the Lord - that great day when the Messiah comes in power and
glory at Armageddon.
Some interpreters (e.g.. Hal Lindsay: Late Great Planet Earth) put this
event (Ezek 38) early in the tribulation but the chapter itself puts it at
the time of God's wrath. On "that day" which is OT shorthand for "the day of
the Lord".

Johninnz

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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] (Fwd) Ha'aretz: Har Homa to get 2,832 more apartments
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:51:20 -0500

------- Forwarded message follows -------
Date sent: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:19:54 -0500
From: imra@netvision.net.il
To: imra@imra.org.il
Subject: Ha'aretz: Har Homa to get 2,832 more apartments

Ha'aretz: Har Homa to get 2,832 more apartments

By Nadav Shragai Ha'aretz 20 March 2001

The Jerusalem Municipalitys planning board yesterday approved the
construction of an additional 2,832 housing units in the Har Homa
development on the southern outskirts of the capital. The regional planning
board must also approve the plan before it is implemented. The controversial
neighborhood is seen by the municipality as a buffer against the expansion
of Palestinian development northward from Bethlehem. Over 2,000 housing
units were previously approved for Har Homa and most are now under construc
tion, but only 638 have been sold. Sales have especially slowed in recent
months due to the renewed Intifada.

--------------------------------------------
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======= To: bprlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bprlist] (Fwd) Ha'aretz: Israeli, PA ministers agree on agriculture
From: "research-bpr" <research-bpr@philologos.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:51:43 -0500

------- Forwarded message follows -------
Date sent: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:20:39 -0500
From: imra@netvision.net.il
To: imra@imra.org.il
Subject: Ha'aretz: Israeli, PA ministers agree
on agriculture cooperation

Ha'aretz: Israeli, PA ministers agree on agriculture cooperation

By Haim Bior Ha'aretz Correspondent Ha'aretz 20 March 2001

Agriculture Minister Shalom Simhon and his Palestinian Authority counterpart
Hikmat Zayed agreed yesterday on a series of steps for cooperation in the
protection of flora and fauna.

The two met at Simhon's office in Bet Dagan, along with their directors
general, and agreed that both veterinary services would prepare joint plans
in the following areas:

+ Diagnostic services and lab services for early detection of ailments in
animals

+ Israel to supply vaccinations to the PA

+ Professional help by Israeli agricultural experts for their Palestinian
counterparts

+ Dialogue between Israel and the PA to protect flora and prevent the crop
diseases.

Zayed said cooperation between the ministries was encouraging, even during
the political tensions, but he also complained the sieges of Palestinian
towns and villages made it difficult for agricultural experts trying to
prevent disease and investigate any suspicions of foot-and-mouth disease.

Simhon said he would raise the problem of the limits on the movement of
Palestinian agricultural experts and its effect on preventing the spread of
disease. He promised to pass the content of their discussions to the foreign
and defense ministers.

Sources said the meeting was friendly and professional and both sides had
refrained from direct comment on political matters.

Simhon later said "even if the Palestinians claim that they have found cases
of foot-and-mouth are true, these are isolated incidents.

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